Up to this point, we've made sure that no element in Odonata is ever safe from questioning and revision, and with that in mind we questioned Odonata's 3D top down aspect.
Friday, 11 May 2012
Conversion to 2.5D! *Not anymore
In the past few weeks Odonata has really been going through some drastic changes, namely with us deciding a definitive format for Odonata to really flourish, aesthetically and gameplay-wise.
Up to this point, we've made sure that no element in Odonata is ever safe from questioning and revision, and with that in mind we questioned Odonata's 3D top down aspect.Here is a quick prototype mock up of the new format we have planned for Odonata.
While this new format may seem like it will have a substantial knock-on effect we can assure you that the gameplay will still remain true to our original plan.
We'd love to hear what you think!
Up to this point, we've made sure that no element in Odonata is ever safe from questioning and revision, and with that in mind we questioned Odonata's 3D top down aspect.
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Well, it sounds risky to adapt the 3D gameplay into 2D. You will need to be very careful with level design if you've decided to go down that path since if, correct me if I'm wrong, you aimed for something similar to a sandbox.
ReplyDeleteOn the other hand 2D has way many advantages and it could be more interesting aesthetically. I guess it makes the coding much easier as well.
I'm sure it will turn out for the good either way =)
That's a great concept image. It seems like it's more suited to a game that goes down more than it does to the sides.
ReplyDeleteWow -- completely different perspective! The shift in design reminds me of what happened with A Valley Without Wind, which I hear ultimately turned out to be a great decision.
ReplyDeleteBest of luck -- keep us posted!
From what i've seen from the game, the 3d would still be a far better solution. Mostly because of the Tower Defense aspects, in 2d may be either too easy or too hard, instead of having more smooth variations of dificulty like in 3d.
ReplyDeleteSignificantly less interested in it now to be perfectly honest, but it does open you up to a different audience. That's just my take on it's face value though since my knowledge of the actual game mechanics is lacking. I do hope the change pays off.
ReplyDeleteI'm wondering if the 2D thing goes for visuals too, or if you're sticking with 2.5D?
I'm sorry to hear that, however I'd like to stress that the gameplay won't change for this new format. What specifically repels you?
DeleteA 3D space just seems like it would be much more flexible for facilitating emergent strategy. I'm not sure how that wouldn't effect the gameplay, but as I said I don't know much about it to begin with. Apart from that the visuals were what initially attracted me. Those initial screenshots had a great aesthetic.
DeleteWell, they haven't really shown a lot verically in the 3d space, so, they were really just dealing with a 2d space in a 3d perspective (from what I can see). The only extra limiting factor here would be gravity, and needing places to stand, which brings on its own issues.
DeletePretty neat mock-up. Really curious how the gameplay will turn out this way.
ReplyDeleteAlso curious about the graphics. I work at a studio where we're doing a 2.5D-ish game aswell and I wonder what your take on this style will be.
Looking forward to the next post :)
I saw this on DA and wondered if things had really changed so much! I think it's good that you are exploring alternate paths, especially at the early stages. May I ask why the change in perspective?
ReplyDeleteIt looks interesting of course, but I'm curious what advantages a change in viewpoint would provide.
Looks neat, althought I think that it would be interesting in 2.5D if you play with several layers deep (I was thinking 3) so you can play around with visibility and like hide behind walls or columns so enemies cannto see you, and also so you can build in one layer and still walk pass the construction in another layer, and so on...but i dont know if it is too much to ask.
ReplyDeleteI would really like to know what you guys think about this idea.
Anyway i cannot wait to see some actual gameplay in the 2.5D scheme.
I don't care what anyone says, I love you for this change. 110% on board.
ReplyDeleteI like this new style - I think it's a good direction to take. I never really liked the top down view - it was quite confusing visually - I didn't really know what was going on in the previous videos you'd posted!
ReplyDeleteFor me, this is much better. Generally, 2d games have way simpler controls and gameplay, and because of that attract a broader audience. It also gives you the opportunity to port the game to touch controls for the ipad and iphone. I was disappointed when i saw the old 3d top down view, but this seems much more approachable. For an indie game, i consider it a wiser choice to go for 2d gameplay. In the end, nobody cares if it was hard to do or not, they only care if the game is fun.
ReplyDeleteWhoa, big change! The mock up looks great though, look forward to seeing how the gameplay will work from this new angle! Keep up the great work guys!
ReplyDeleteThis is definitely a big decision, so I doubt you take it lightly. The change in perspective from a horizontally focused plane (top-down) to a vertical one suggests a totally different type of game. I'm not going to say it's a bad idea, in fact I'm fascinated to see the same trap-building mechanics being applied to this new perspective, but it does also suggest a very different style of gameplay. I would love to hear more about exactly why you decided to take this sudden and rather drastic shift in design direction.
ReplyDeletePretty big change, I like the look, I think the 2.5D game would make it easier to visualize the terrain and enemies around you as where the 3D top/side field of view seemed a little small(unless you could zoom out).
ReplyDeletePlus I would say that 2D side scrollers games are quite "à la mode" and maybe easier to learn to play.
Aw really :/... There is a real lack of character based top down games in indie world imo, I was super exited to see how you guys were planning on tackling it.
ReplyDeleteI guess that just gives me more incentive to begin work on my 3d top down adventure game idea.
Just as more clarification, my main dissapointment is that the elements that you described in previous posts fitted 3d really well, but 2d destroys that huge amount of depth that can come from the rts elements.
DeleteI just think there is a lot more creative room to explore in the full 3d territory with platformers being so abused this past decade by the indie crowd.
I'm sorry to hear you are disappointed, however we're not at all dropping the rts elements, it might be hard to visualise given the lack of frame reference available. Of course there is going to be a degree of adaptation but it's not going to be modifying our design or philosophy for that matter.
DeleteThe world will still be randomly generated and you will still be gathering and moving resources from areas. Just try to imagine that the available space to work in is flat in front of you as the background in 2D, rather than flat beneath you in the 3D world.
Your art looks amazing as always Mr. Laro! Correct me if I'm wrong, but initially I kind of got the feeling that the original design was geared to be a sandbox procedural-generated game. So does that mean you will drop that? If not I'm really interested in seeing how you will adapt the trap/non linear gameplay to a 2d sidescroller. Either way, this mock up looks great and I can't wait to hear more!
ReplyDeleteI've been watching this for awhile, as what you had so far seemed really interesting. I'm a fan of 2D as well as 3D games, so either way is fine for me. Both have their challenges and advantages, and both are suited to different kinds of games. I imagine that with this 2D view, items and weapons will have more 'vertical' range, right? Also, I know that everyone else is asking, but if you originally planned to have a sandbox style, how would you tackle that in 2D? Just wondering.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, the game looks really great so far, both the mock-up and what you have so far of the 3D version. Hope you finish it!
Well, the isometric top down view still contains you to a manifold 2d plane. And since it didn't have perspective projection it was barely '3D' anyway. And this way you can have more Z axis and overlapping rooms, which is almost invariably a gameplay win in my experience.
ReplyDeleteI've been playing Terraria lately, and sidescrollers + procedural worlds seem to mix just fine. I'm all for it.
Seems like it would simplify a lot of work and cut out a lot of issues. *Shrugs* The old quote seems to apply, "A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away."- Antoine de Saint-Exupery
ReplyDeleteThat said, top down iso is certainly more unique ...
Anyhow, excited to see/hear more ! <3
The idea seems great. This is unique idea.
ReplyDeleteVery late reply, and I have no idea how this is moving along. But I'm a bit sad to see it, I do feel it detracts from the feeling of freedom and also feels less unique to me (contrasting opinion from Basic Metals).
ReplyDeleteHowever, if it's between having a 3D isometric view and not being able to implement your ideas or having time to do them and a 2.5D sideview, then it's certainly no real choice. I'm sure it'll be pretty anyway.
I did like the other view though.
looks awesome! i was looking at your work on deviant art and found this. it reminds me the old neo geo arcade game Metal Slug. anyway looks slick!
ReplyDeleteIt's a good thing you're still going for the original isometric view, from what I saw from the two videos you put up, it makes the game WAY more interesting and it lends itself more to a swarm/tower-defense type game! Especially when your current build seems to work so well!
ReplyDeletePersonally I don't like tower-defense type games in side-view 2D, I feel like it wouldn't control very well on a PC compared to a 3D isometric game like you've shown already, and to me the 2D-ness would detract from the swarm-fending-off gameplay you're going for.
I would definitely play the game, I love the style, hope it comes out on Steam? :D